hi, long-time reader, first-time commenter.

so the more i’ve been thinking about this post, the more it’s been gnawing at me how kind of wrong-headed and reactionary it is. fist patrick labeled this as uncomfortable internalized homophobia in his comment, and i think that’s a fairly accurate assessment. you were uncomfortable with a dude slinkily suggesting that you and yr bf have a threesome with him: fair enough, i’d be fairly uncomfortable with that too. i wouldn’t, however, extract from that situation such a damning critique of “gay culture”. i think, in fact, that it’s extremely unfair for you to do so, because these “negative” traits you ascribe to him – forthrightness about his sexuality, penchant for revealing underwear, whatever else – are HARDLY solely endemic to the great unwashed gay masses, but more to a strawman you’ve constructed to react against. you don’t like gays who act in this queeny, promiscuous way, but you’re also content to establish a set of behaviors/media archetypes that typify these guys in such a way that inevitably leads to a pernicious policing of pleasure (ie gays should do THIS and THIS but THAT is NOT ACCEPTABLE) that makes me kind of uncomfortable (personally, as someone who enjoys going out dancing at gay clubs and listening to music made on machines that’s faster than 120 bpm and watching [and tivo-ing!] gossip girl and other such ‘gay’ activities that are often enjoyed by heteros as well).

i have more i want to say but i should’ve left work some time ago…

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Also, not to be hogging the comment board here, but this article totally made me vomit, and I think provides an example that is way relevant here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/magazine/27young-t.html

If these people are the people combatting stereotypes and moving us forward, then I think it’s time for a new movement.

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Oddly, I think I agree with both of you to some extent.

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As per usual with us on these issues I have to severely disagree and actually find this to be riddled with a kind of uncomfortable internalized homophobia.

Isn’t gay rights also about the freedom to wear glitter? The rainbow represents all sorts of sexuality and is about accepting a multitude of differences. Not that I’m condoning this kid who seems agreeabley totally awful, but I don’t think the reason gays get stares has to do with his immature behavior.

Gays get stared at, can’t adopt kids, and in general are treated as second class citizens in our culture, not because of promiscuous sex or effete behavior, but because of desires we have that are seen as “un-natural” not matter how monogamous and with-children you may become. The issue here is not affectations of the relatively new “gay culture” but rather the fact that same gender love is threatening to the idea of the heterosexual family unit as it’s conceived of in our culture.

I honestly think people need to accept the glitter and bathroom stall hook ups in order to ever truly accept a monogamous gay couple that reflects more mainstream heterosexual coupling. The problem here is not the affectations that come out of being a marginalized subculture, it’s the fact that we are marginalized in the first place.

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