Posted on July 23rd, 2008 by Colin
Have you guys heard about the ever growing phenomenon of the New Old Gay? Doree Shafrir, part of the troupe of internet-famous ex-Gawker editors, has written a piece (of shit) for the New York Observer today that explains it all for you.
Doree offers up her insight into what she calls the “New Old Gay” identity, which seems to be based entirely on a one night she spent at Musical Monday at Splash.
To be classified as a New Old Gay requires more than an appreciation of Patti LuPone, though love of somewhat tragic, just a tad grotesque, totally fabulous divas is a requirement. In some ways the New Old Gay can be read as a reassertion of a gay identity that had all but been given up for dead: If gays can be married and have children and live contentedly in the suburbs, or on the other end of the spectrum, do the same drugs at the same loft parties as their Oberlin classmates, and if everyone thinks AIDS is no more serious than diabetes, then, really, what’s the difference between the gays and the straights? By dialing back to and reinventing the old gay stereotypes, they may have the best shot at reclaiming gayness as something actually different.
It’s akin to the ways in which identity politics have played out for various minorities and ethnic groups; everyone makes this huge effort to assimilate, and then, after 10 or 20 years or so, they realize: It’s boring!
And thus, the New Old Gay appreciates and embraces camp and high kitsch, but not ironically; ultimately, the New Old Gay is earnest. He doesn’t even necessarily have to be into musical theater, though he almost always is.
Really? AIDS viewed to be as a manageable illness on the same level as Diabetes? So is GMHC irelevant now? Are you trying to tell me that there’s no reason for me to continue using condoms? I’m so glad that someone is finally recognizing the way that a deadly virus has been embraced by a clueless population and turned into a non-issue.
It was also freeing to learn that I can finally use all the same drugs as my straight student counterparts, instead of those gay drugs I was using before. You know, the gay drugs that ONLY gay people do like weed, coke, ecstasy, and meth. That’s right. All the men and women featured on faces of meth are all very very gay because meth is a very gay drug and only for gays.
If it wasn’t for the New Old Gays re-asserting gay identity through old stereotypes, gay identity would disappear and be totally indistinguishable from straight culture. This sort of assimilation is so apparent when you look at today’s hip, queer performance groups and art scenes like the Dazzle Dancers and Yo Majesty, who are both SO straight acting, guys!1!1!!
These people, in their musical loving glory, exist in opposition to what she labels the “New Gay.” These people are basically like me but who tried heroin and love pointy shoes?
These days, the young gays of Williamsburg and the East Village—the ones who wear pointy shoes and tight cutoff shorts, who studied queer theory and dabbled in heroin at Sarah Lawrence or Bard or Wesleyan, hang out at bars like Metropolitan and Sugarland in Williamsburg or the Phoenix and Eastern Bloc in the East Village, and listen to Chromeo and Girl Talk and Le Tigre—get all the attention. Corner one of these young men, and he will profess ignorance of that other scene of youthful gays, the gays of the Friends of Dorothy variety.
So I’m pretty sure I fall in line with the new gays. I love Chromeo, Girl Talk, and Le Tigre. I live in Williamsburg. I hang out at Metropolitan religiously and I frequent both the Phoenix and Eastern Bloc when I am in the East Village. But somehow I am ignorant of the friends of Dorothy? Also… has Le Tigre put out any new music in the last 10 years? Because I’m pretty sure Le Tigre, as much as I love them, falls in the realm of riot grrl nostalgia.
Look. I was a musical theater kid. I can sing all the lyrics to Little Shop of Horrors. I played Frederick in Pirates of Penzance when I was in high school. I have great respect for Patti Lupone and I really wanted to see the production she was in with Michael Severus of Sweeney Todd. I used to go to Marie’s Crisis and have been invited to go to Musical Mondays by a bear friend of mine who has shielded nipple rings (someone nothing like the men featured in thearticle). Since when did being knowledgeable of musical theater culture and camp start to be in contradiction to hipness?
As much as I can appreciate an old gay (I looooooved Chris from Project Runway last season, I really actually want to hang out with him sometime, not in an ironic way), when people my age emulate another era and time it often is a way of deflecting what it means to be a gay man in the present. Previous generations have already made it “safe” to be gay as long as you’re into musicals, lisp, and want to go into something that marginally influences society like broadway wig making.
This article not only pigeonholes gay behavior but also treats us like we’re dancing monkeys, “theater historians agree that one simple explanation why musical theater was attractive to gay men was in part because it provided them a place where singing and dancing was considered acceptable.” Can I get a citation or a single named expert to back that up? You seem to also be saying that singing and dancing are somehow inherent to homosexuality, which I can easily dissprove through a survey of my own friend. Lazy journalism is no excuse to start treating homos like they are the dancing monkeys for the rest of society.
The thing is, the key to Doree’s article, and what may have made for some truly interesting analysis instead of the insulting op-ed piece presented here is present in a quote from one of the men she interviewed that one Musical Monday at Splash.
From my experience within the past 10 to 15 years, there’s lots of oppression you deal with without even realizing it. Through musical theater, you have the opportunity to be larger than life. It’s like you’re overcompensating for the fact that you can’t ever be yourself. All of the being yourself gets pushed down.” Nonetheless, Mr. Thompson, who runs an ensemble theater company called the Deconstructive Theatre Project, said he’s focusing on darker, more political theatrical material these days. “I’m more interested in confronting the world than running away from it,” he said.
That’s some food for thought there. Homosexuals cannot effectively assert their identities by adopting old stereotypes anew, but rather the key is to be cultural pioneers and to confront the realities we live in. Does this have to exclude innovations in musical theater? Of course not. But I’d question whether or not 21 year olds waxing poetic about Judy Garland means that they are asserting an identity or simply falling in line with a consumerist niche created for them in today’s world.
Then again, I’m the sort of person known to have the following conversations.
me: how can I say I am a radical queer if I can’t have sex with a tranny fag
Eliot: amazing
me: haha
Eliot: that’s the most amazing/disgusting thing i’ve ever heard
“how can I say I am a radical queer if I can’t have sex with a tranny fag”
[ “The New Old Gays,” The New York Observer]
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July 23rd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
well said. i couldn’t argue that they deserve it, but this could be a great letter to the editor. i’m writing one now, since i am a native New Yorker whose favorite bar is Phoenix and a recently graduated Wesleyan University student — who never “dabbled in heroin”, but who did study queer theory there. maybe they won’t like it though, since i am not on of ms. shafrir’s happily unemployed, delirious performance queens who want nothing more than to put on a good show. ah, well, i must be “boring”. nothing would make me happier, though, than yo majesty dueting with taylor mac while the dazzle dancers did an interpretive dance — no homo, i mean, no irony.
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Colin reply on July 24, 2008:
I actually submitted the link to this as in the comments and checked it off as a “letter to the editor.” It would be cool if they picked it up!
The Yo Majesty with Taylor Mac with the Dazzle Dancers idea is totally giving me a performance art boner right now.
July 23rd, 2008 at 3:58 pm
totally agree. also the author totally disregards the fact that cut-off shorts, girl talk, and williamsburg are all part of a much larger hipster (or what have you) phenomenon.
one of the most ridiculous essays i have ever read
I went to bard, have never done heroin, hate those bands, and don’t wear pointy shoes. cut-offs maybe.
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Colin reply on July 24, 2008:
Whatever, I know you totally love Chromeo.
July 23rd, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Now I remember why I haven’t picked up an issue of the Observer in years…
…as for bear with with nipple shields…
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July 23rd, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Well said Colin. “New Old Gay,” “New Gay” we’re all gay! A lot of us probably don’t fit under either of these two labels… I know I don’t…
It’s like Ray’s Pizza… whether it’s “Famous Ray’s,” “Original Ray’s,” “Famous Original Ray’s,” or just plain “Ray’s” it’s all pizza…
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July 24th, 2008 at 9:01 am
I have much more to say about this, I swear, but I just wanted to get this out of the way first…
I totally loved Chris too! In an entirely unironic way. It’s funny because that was around the same time that I started to hate Project Runway. Originally, I hated Chris because of the tacky ass dress he designed for Candis Cayne (it was in a photoshoot for Next magazine or something). But then something happened. I suppose it was that he was the only person who seemed to be having fun with their designs? Or maybe he just wasn’t damn Christian Siriano.
Ok, now that we got that out of the way…
Wait. I lied. Can we talk about Yo Majesty? I met Shunda K recently when I was out in Philly. My friend was opening for Yo Maj & Does It Offend You, Yeah?, and Ms. Shunda K rolls up mad late! Shon B wasn’t there because they were having “complications”. I introduced myself because I ran a remix contest for them a little over a year ago (mind you, while I was trying to complete my senior thesis art exhibition). I have no need to be modest here. I was one of the first music bloggers to write about them, the remix contest really got their acappellas out there to a shitload of DJs. I can’t really recount what made me so mad about the situation, but she shook my hand and just gave me her business card. I don’t even think she knew who I was, even though I explained very clearly. Maybe I’m being a little oversensitive, but Yo Majesty is sort of dead to me. I just heard their new promo EP and it BLOWS, which is sad because the unreleased tracks from when Jwl B was still in the group were SO GOOD.
Okay, now I’ve gotten to a point where I forgot what I was going to say.
And oh, hi Misko.
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Colin reply on July 24, 2008:
As awful as that sounds, here’s my Yo Majesty defense.
I for reals brought my mother out to the Chromeo/Yo Majesty show at Studio B last year and she totally cut a rug and loved it. So I have an undying love for them because that was an amazing experience and my mother danced with all my friends. Yo Majesty — Topless lesbian rappers anyone’s mother can love.
JJS-III reply on July 24, 2008:
In honor of dancing moms, I will say that you win.
I actually had a similar-but-not-really-similar-at-all moment. I went to see Purple Crush at Studio B, and it was the day before Isla and Jared were getting married. Isla’s mother was in the crowd, and I couldn’t help but wonder how she felt about her daughter humping speakers and singing “Fuck you, pay me.”
July 24th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
I dont get why this is a problem? Seems like a blatantly obvious humor piece to me. Also,re: previous posts, what’s so threatening about Kathy Griffin or Margaret Cho? A lot of gay folks seem to really like them, and they genuinely seem to like the gays (and not in a mine-them-for-money way either). Are gays who laugh at their jokes somehow less intelligent, or being duped or something?
The whole dancing monkey remark thing seems a little contrary for contrary’s sake. Not trying to be dicky or anything, but just thought I’d voice my own gay opinion.
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hannah reply on July 24, 2008:
the thing is, Hi!, that this was a pop-sociology piece–but the only time that pop/casual-sociology thinks it/they can address homosexuality is in the context of humor or irony. i think it’s really telling of the still uncomfortable placement of queerness and gay culture (or whatever) in mainstream media that this is still true.
Colin reply on July 24, 2008:
re: Kathy Griffin and Margaret Cho pieces you object to.
This is a multi-authored blog, so I’d suggest you put comments on those posts concerning those topics. While I do write the majority of this and do publish everything on here, I don’t necesarily agree with the opinions of all the writers. If you comment on their posts the writer will receive an email notification with your comment.
July 24th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I agree that these New Gays Doree writes about are just hipsters trying to keep their subculture around by retooling it as gay. Most New Gays I’ve encountered were straight…
She doesn’t seem to understand that this Old Gay culture is actually very rich and has over 100 years of history - not that this represents a very large percentage of homosexuals. Personally, I don’t fit into either very well but would probably fit into the New Old Gays because I have better taste in music than the New Gays.
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JJS III reply on July 25, 2008:
WHATEVA DUDE, CHROMEO IS TEH AWESOME!!
JJS III reply on July 25, 2008:
WHATEVA DUDE, CHROMEO IS TEH AWESOME!!
…But I totally had a mental orgasm when I saw Patti Lupone in “Gypsy”.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Is there some background info about Choire Sicha’s involvement in this whole discussion that I’m missing? I mean, I know he’s made the (silly) suggestion in the comments section of Doree’s Observer article that all the criticism boils down to gays not wanting to be written or talked about, ever. But how does the link in this post to Choire’s article about male writers fit in?
It might help me in deciding whether the follow-up RADAR post in which Choire writes “That she is, girls, that she is.” about GMSC’s “revenge” is supposed to be sarcastic, or not.
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Colin reply on July 24, 2008:
I didn’t even know I got written up on radar so thanks so much for the heads up. I’m excited it read it.
Thanks for catching that link mkistake too, that was my fault, it was supposed to go to splash bar’s site. I was looking up other old gawker editor articles that I remember disliking and somehow that got pasted in there.
Thanks a ton!
July 24th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
I must be a hybrid Transcendental Omni-Gay.
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July 25th, 2008 at 6:53 am
I must admit I have always loved the Pirates of Penzance.
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July 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
how do i get choire sicha to fist me ?! i’m a neo.new.old nasty gay
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July 29th, 2008 at 5:22 am
Hi,
I too left a comment on the observer article, this is what i wrote…
Hey Doree,
I must say this is one of the most ridiculous articles I think I’ve ever read. Trying to connect people’s taste’s based only on age is well let me see ageism. Not to mention all the stereotypical crap added in for good measure. Though I do love the use of the word “gays”, it’s so generic…
Just another article putting labels on people to encourage more exclusion…..Judy would be appauled…;)
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August 24th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
First off let me say that i love your blog www.socialcrisis.net a lot
now.. back to the post lol
I cant say that i agree with what you typed up… care to explain more?
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